Thursday, July 15, 2010

Wine or Juice.

Tom's Journal.

Hello Friends.
This may seem to be a minor point compared to being SAVED, and the 2nd coming of Christ, etc., but I think it's best to understand everything that is true and honest in life and the Bible.
Having been to many different churches and talking to myriads of people and pastors on this subject--- all I ever wanted was the real truth. We must understand that drunkenness is a serious sin, and people who practice/ live continually in drunkenness without repenting will not inherit God's Kingdom. See: 1st Corinthians 6:9-10. People do stupid and dangerous things when they drink too much! Yet drinking in moderation is NOT condemned by the Bible! No matter what so-called Bible "scholar" or 'agenda driven' pastors say or preach!

As I was typing this post, the Time Warner Cable TV guy came over to check out a malfunction with our set, and cleared it up. I used one of my favorite "openers" about being a Vietnam Vet, and the guy named, Bill, said that his Dad was over there too [and prob died way to early in life from Agent Orange. [More on "openers" and 'ice breakers' latter-- if you want, plus my past Sales experience that I use now as a Christian]. I asked him if he was a Christian, and he said yes, and after a brief discussion, as he was pressed for time, I gave him a $15 copy of the DEFINED KJV Bible and told him to compare it with his own bible-- the differences, benefits, etc. OK... I did something 'good' in sharing the truth of the God's Word. But now... if I now decided to get drunk later-- I would negate all the good that I did prior to that, and that would be a sin, and kind of stupid and irresponsible of me. Let this be my own private 'victory in Christ' -- something good that happen to me today-- that I am sharing with my readers now--YOU] I choose NOT to sin, but the Holy Spirit helps me out BIG TIME in guarding myself against unwise, goofy, trash that flies into my imperfect brain. We will never be perfect this side of heaven-- but we can and do get better. We read/ study the Bible, and then apply it with the help of the Holy Spirit as best we can-- and build on what we know and understand-- and pass this good stuff on to others. That is the Christian way of life, IMHO. PTL. I just thought I would share that small tidbit with you. I guess I fall into the category of "seed planter" and I may never know what good I tried to sow and plant. I am hoping to 'store up my treasures in heaven, where moth and rust cannot consume.' But I have always wanted to mentor some younger guys, or new people that are just starting to learn about the Bible and God. It's fun and very rewarding for me.
Have a nice, warm day! May God bless all true Believers who are suffering in the name of Jesus Christ, in the world. The USA is only beginning to smell the evil in the winds blowing through our 'once great' country. We EXPECT things to deteriorate quickly in America just like the rest of this ungodly world of Satan.... and I heard a curious thing on Christian radio yesterday. FLASH! We are not experiencing great horror and persecution in the USA BECAUSE our pastors and preachers, for the most part, are NOT preaching the TRUTH of the Bible and Jesus Christ in a bold, fearless, honest way!! Too many cowards, worldly, corrupted, money-centric, gutless, 'seeker-friendly' pastors/ churches who are afraid to rock the boat with the TRUTH! Sorry to sound so graphic, but this fact really moves me. But don't worry-- God has His time table set in motion and nothing can stop or delay His agenda and promises.

Tom Schuckman
Disabled Vietnam Veteran: 68-70, and Soldier of Christ.

Wine Or Juice?

Q. Is there any way to know for certain whether Jesus and His disciples drank wine or juice at the institution of the Lord’s supper?

A. I believe this issue arose because some who are opposed to Christians drinking alcoholic beverages try to make the claim that Jesus never drank alcohol. There are plenty of ways to dispute this, but the clearest is in Matt. 11:18-19.

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”

But for those who desire more evidence that wine was served at the Lord’s supper, here’s a response based on deductive reasoning that a regular visitor to the site sent me.

He wrote, ” What time of year was/is the Passover observed? March/April, right? What time of year did our Lord and His disciples observe the Lord’s Supper? At Passover, right? What time of year are the grapes harvested? Around September, right? Did they have refrigeration or pasteurization back then? No? Then how could they have kept the juice from fermenting during the winter? After seven months of storage, you’d have some pretty good wine.



GODthinker said...

Great post!!! I believe Jesus absolutely drank wine or he would not have been accused of being a wine bibber. That being said, in churches for communion I think juice is a better way to go. You never know who may be a former alcoholic or if wine could be a stumbling block. At home or out we are told not to be drunk. I still take into consideration my surroundings. Am I going to be a stumbling block to other believers who may not be as free in their walk as I am? If I think that may be the case, I abstain. Drunkeness is never an option.

Carolyn said...

Hey Tom, as usual, you provoke our brains LOL. I look at this a couple of different ways. One, is what the pastor answered, in that yes (SHOCKING to some) Jesus did have wine- not grape juice. If the act of drinking wine was sinful in itself, would the perfect Son of God, who does not sin nor tempt others to sin, change water into wine? He could have changed it to grape juice, but scripture explicitly says He changed it to wine.
Other way of looking at it, is it is much like money, in that money itself is not evil or sinful, it is the LOVE of money which is sinful. Same with strong drink. It is the "must have" gotta have need- love, where a person is full of thoughts of a drink or the next one, gluttony etc. which is the sinfulness, as they have made drink their god- and the "high" or whatever as their religion.
Anything which becomes and idol is sinful.
Does that mean no one should drink anything alcaholic? No. I've known folks who could down a whole bottle of rum and barely show a sign of staggering. Not that I'd recommend it- but there is nothing wrong with drinking, it is how a person acts about it and after doing it. Me, I can't handle alcahol anymore, and by the Grace of God He helped me not desire it anymore, but I won't give someone the evil eye if they drink one in front of me. If they get fall down drunk, I might say something. If they don't listen, thats their own stupid fault then.
It's much like Paul (? Sorry, as much as I read the Bible, I am still lousy at memorization) who talked about doing or not doing something to cause another to stumble. If you are in company who can not tolerate alcahol, be polite and don't drink it.
My ex mother in law was a strict Pentacostal- who frowned on anything such as that. I didn't drink in front of her, but if there was a group of us and others were drinking- sometimes. But she would give everyone a "Look" about it. Her husband was a Baptist. He would stock their fridge with beer whenever she went away for a couple of days. He NEVER got drunk, just enjoyed a beer once in a while. We used to laugh when he did that, but it's actually kind of sad- because she thought it was sin just for having one.
I guess it's all perspective, and if we focus on the Lord whether we do something in moderation- there is nothing sinful about it.
Sorry that was so long :0) GOd Bless you Tom!